Return-Path: <awaresystems.be+caf_=filtered=awaresystems.be@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: filtered@awaresystems.be
Delivered-To: filtered@awaresystems.be
Received: from mx-s.one.com (mx-s.one.com [91.198.169.250])
	by mail9.b-one.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC7E5400E3C
	for <filtered@awaresystems.be>; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 10:08:50 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: by one.com
Received-SPF: pass (mx-s: domain of awaresystems.be+caf_=filtered=awaresystems.be@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.48 as permitted sender)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0-rc2
Received: from mail-pw0-f48.google.com (mail-pw0-f48.google.com [209.85.160.48])
	by mx-s.one.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254219F84AC
	for <filtered@awaresystems.be>; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 09:08:49 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by pbcup7 with SMTP id up7so3799259pbc.21
        for <filtered@awaresystems.be>; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:08:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.68.73.225 with SMTP id o1mr3337755pbv.77.1330506528698;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:08:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Forwarded-To: filtered@awaresystems.be
X-Forwarded-For: awaresystems.be@gmail.com filtered@awaresystems.be
Delivered-To: awaresystems.be@gmail.com
Received: by 10.142.101.7 with SMTP id y7csp72396wfb;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:08:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.68.136.234 with SMTP id qd10mr3582696pbb.14.1330506525362;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:08:45 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Status: good
Received-SPF: softfail (google.com: best guess record for domain of transitioning cipper82@gmail.com does not designate 91.198.169.250 as permitted sender) client-ip=91.198.169.250;
Received: by 10.68.235.231 with POP3 id up7mf20598pbc.12;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:08:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Gmail-Fetch-Info: info@awaresystems.be 1 pop.awaresystems.be 110 info@awaresystems.be
X-Original-To: info@awaresystems.be
Delivered-To: info@awaresystems.be
Received: from mx-s.one.com (mx-s.one.com [91.198.169.250])
	by mail9.b-one.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A09400A20
	for <info@awaresystems.be>; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 09:22:50 +0100 (CET)
Received-SPF: pass (mx-s: domain of cipper82@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.176 as permitted sender)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0-rc2
Received: from mail-wi0-f176.google.com (mail-wi0-f176.google.com [209.85.212.176])
	by mx-s.one.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC2D903AE
	for <info@awaresystems.be>; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 08:22:50 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by wibhq7 with SMTP id hq7so2380252wib.21
        for <info@awaresystems.be>; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:22:50 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of cipper82@gmail.com designates 10.216.133.93 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.216.133.93;
Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of cipper82@gmail.com designates 10.216.133.93 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=cipper82@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=cipper82@gmail.com
Received: from mr.google.com ([10.216.133.93])
        by 10.216.133.93 with SMTP id p71mr7832390wei.10.1330503770118 (num_hops = 1);
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:22:50 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :cc:content-type;
        bh=w9Vg1tsgIKt3AhQrxriuWBWOW2ZRPHWZmPB3EPdQTf8=;
        b=PvrKFbsgaOlmNWA9Msipn5YPvnbL1CAnrqaCkZI/ZUdR5RqJtBjtjOxQARCcEdJvgO
         noaeuTduFHY3hxiBLRkcV9Ji96cp4DEr/TKNmnIT2Y4p1arqaw9zZSWGRlt8U2GfaTs1
         meeuctkVoQszV8H7t/ON/MJVoFzZiD+rWLB6E=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.216.133.93 with SMTP id p71mr6213958wei.10.1330503769905; Wed,
 29 Feb 2012 00:22:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.223.112.194 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:22:49 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CA+NZCsRKwaN4QkVbrUvZKcbi6FGudcn+sgToRHsOsLEMcrJoBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+7Z1rwm1pORDFayP9-RPuP9EqbXB4S7O_Sg5nr+PefBq2uP3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+NZCsRKwaN4QkVbrUvZKcbi6FGudcn+sgToRHsOsLEMcrJoBw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 10:22:49 +0200
Message-ID: <CA+7Z1rxxfiniXvAiMUvGiurBaHzmSsKeuxNGP6F3Zj-J8LdztA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tiff] BigTiff support (libtiff 4.0.1 vs libtif f4.1)
From: Cip Cipper <cipper82@gmail.com>
To: "Joris Van Damme (AWare Systems)" <info@awaresystems.be>
Cc: tiff@lists.maptools.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dbde5793dae604ba160c45

--0016e6dbde5793dae604ba160c45
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello,



First of all I would like to thank you all for your answers. The way
libTiff behaves wight now is just fine.

The company I work for develops software for textile industry and our
clients use frequently Adobe's CS products and it would have been perfect
if Photoshop offered support for BigTiff.



But as they have developed their own .psb format for very large files and
there's no sign they will eventually load BigTiff format I was trying to
shoot two rabbits with one bullet.

The idea was that when a client saved a very large image with compression
if it didn't exceed 4 GB that file would have been usable in Photoshop as
well. But I will try to make an estimate of the output size in order to
minimize the number of BigTiff files as much as possible.



I still hope that one of two things will happen sometime in the future.
Adobe will offer support for BigTiff, or maybe a future libTiff version
will behave like I have described and automatically update a file to
BigTiff only when it is necessary.



Best regards,

Ciprian

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 9:57 PM, Joris Van Damme (AWare Systems) <
info@awaresystems.be> wrote:

> Ciprian,
>
> > It was more than I needed as the output was depending on the size of the
> > file. If it did not exceed 4 GB the result was a standard Tiff (version
> 42)
> > and if it was larger than 4GB the library managed to save it as a large
> Tiff
> > (version 43) without any "external" intervention.
>
> This has been considered when LibTiff 4.0 was designed. It was deemed
> undesirable, as however you decide to implement this, there are very
> serious drawbacks. In fact, it's just not entirely possible unless you
> willingly neglect to foresee some types of usage, and don't mind
> output of files with various 'holes' in it depending on the way you
> choose to support this, etc.
>
> Aperio apparently decided otherwise, but the crash you observed while
> dealing with palette images may very well be related. And even if it's
> not, I still don't recommend it.
>
> Instead, ask yourself why you would need this feature. If it's
> entirely possible you output files over 4 gigabyte in size, than you
> need software that handles your output to support BigTIFF. The fact
> that you still write some files as plain old TIFF, does not change a
> thing. This logic does not apply, of course, in situations where a
> user decides on the output file format, at run-time. In that case, you
> offer various file format choices that all have some limitation. Users
> not being aware of the limitations and consequences of their choice,
> apparently does not break the validity of offering the choice in the
> UI. So you may as well let them choose between TIFF and BigTIFF, too.
> Any added 'friendliness' like automatic offering of BigTIFF when
> writing TIFF fails due to size limitations, is an added bonus.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Joris Van Damme
> AWare Systems
>

--0016e6dbde5793dae604ba160c45
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Hello,</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"></spa=
n></p>


<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">First of all I would
like to thank you all for your answers. The way libTiff behaves wight now i=
s just fine.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The company I work for develops
software for textile industry and our clients use frequently Adobe&#39;s CS
products and it would have been perfect if Photoshop offered support for
BigTiff.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">But as they have
developed their own .psb format for very large files and there&#39;s no sig=
n they
will eventually load BigTiff format I was trying to shoot two rabbits with =
one
bullet.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The idea was that when a
client saved a very large image with compression if it didn&#39;t exceed 4 =
GB that
file would have been usable in Photoshop as well. But I will try to make an
estimate of the output size in order to minimize the number of BigTiff file=
s as
much as possible.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I still hope that one of
two things will happen sometime in the future. Adobe will offer support for
BigTiff, or maybe a future libTiff version will behave like I have describe=
d
and automatically update a file to BigTiff only when it is necessary.</span=
></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Best regards,</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Ciprian</span></p><div><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 9:57 PM, Joris Van Damme (AWare=
 Systems) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:info@awaresystems.be">inf=
o@awaresystems.be</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Ciprian,<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; It was more than I needed as the output was depending on the size of t=
he<br>
&gt; file. If it did not exceed 4 GB the result was a standard Tiff (versio=
n 42)<br>
&gt; and if it was larger than 4GB the library managed to save it as a larg=
e Tiff<br>
&gt; (version 43) without any &quot;external&quot; intervention.<br>
<br>
</div>This has been considered when LibTiff 4.0 was designed. It was deemed=
<br>
undesirable, as however you decide to implement this, there are very<br>
serious drawbacks. In fact, it&#39;s just not entirely possible unless you<=
br>
willingly neglect to foresee some types of usage, and don&#39;t mind<br>
output of files with various &#39;holes&#39; in it depending on the way you=
<br>
choose to support this, etc.<br>
<br>
Aperio apparently decided otherwise, but the crash you observed while<br>
dealing with palette images may very well be related. And even if it&#39;s<=
br>
not, I still don&#39;t recommend it.<br>
<br>
Instead, ask yourself why you would need this feature. If it&#39;s<br>
entirely possible you output files over 4 gigabyte in size, than you<br>
need software that handles your output to support BigTIFF. The fact<br>
that you still write some files as plain old TIFF, does not change a<br>
thing. This logic does not apply, of course, in situations where a<br>
user decides on the output file format, at run-time. In that case, you<br>
offer various file format choices that all have some limitation. Users<br>
not being aware of the limitations and consequences of their choice,<br>
apparently does not break the validity of offering the choice in the<br>
UI. So you may as well let them choose between TIFF and BigTIFF, too.<br>
Any added &#39;friendliness&#39; like automatic offering of BigTIFF when<br=
>
writing TIFF fails due to size limitations, is an added bonus.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Joris Van Damme<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">AWare Systems<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--0016e6dbde5793dae604ba160c45--
