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  envelope-from="SRS0=Mdwf=VU=lists.osgeo.org=tiff-bounces@osgeo.org";
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  x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1";
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From: "Simon (Vsevolod) Ilyushchenko" <simonf@simonf.com>
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 13:09:07 -0700
Message-ID: <CAO8peESDbRrK9E-4MvP4DUj-_QjjWX6hW+vDJ4UX4xqsMMXZHQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bob Friesenhahn <bfriesen@simple.dallas.tx.us>
Cc: Tiff List <tiff@lists.osgeo.org>
Subject: Re: [Tiff] best tiff tag names for start and end datetimes?
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1. Bob: The reason I'd like to have the option of timezones is that modern
timestrings like ISO8601 often have them, so using Z to indicate UTC (which
is indeed the majority of our timestamps) would both handle the common case
and allow the possibility of using other timezones.

2. Kemp: It's not just for Google, but I don't know how broadly this would
be used. AFAIK, the immediately adjacent community of people using big data
and remote sensing have not settled on any standard yet, but it seems like
the right time to establish one.

3. Even: yes, I'm not quite sure whether this should be handled on GDAL or
TIFF level. Other GDAL-readable format like netcdf-cf have time standards
already, but yes, geotiffs (and lately COGs = cloud-optimized geotiffs
<https://www.cogeo.org/>) are the lingua franca of our community.  Setting
GDAL fields START_DATE and END_DATE indeed feels like a good solution, so I
wanted to find out how to do this properly in the hope of creating a
standard.

On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 12:46 PM Bob Friesenhahn <
bfriesen@simple.dallas.tx.us> wrote:

> On Thu, 12 May 2022, Simon (Vsevolod) Ilyushchenko wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Can you assume DateTime is UTC with your particular files and use cases?
> >>
> >
> > Yes, this is a good fallback option.
>
> I am not sure about established precedence, but this is much better
> than being a mere fallback option as long as the recipient knows it is
> UTC.  This could be handled via documentation.
>
> Dealing with time zones is hard, and it assumes that both the writer
> and the reader have knowledge of the current time zone, and access to
> the time zone database necessary to do conversions.
>
> It may still be necessary for the writer and reader do to something
> special to produce and consume UTC timestamps.
>
> Unix type systems (and those using NTP) have a system clock which is
> on UTC time.
>
> Bob
> --
> Bob Friesenhahn
> bfriesen@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
> GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
> Public Key,     http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">1. Bob: The reason I&#39;d like to have the option of time=
zones is that modern timestrings like ISO8601 often have them, so using Z t=
o indicate=C2=A0UTC (which is indeed the majority of our timestamps) would =
both handle the common case and allow the possibility of using other timezo=
nes.<div><br>2. Kemp: It&#39;s not just for Google, but I don&#39;t know ho=
w broadly=C2=A0this would be used. AFAIK, the immediately adjacent communit=
y of people using big data and remote sensing have not settled on any stand=
ard yet, but it seems like the right time to establish one.<br><br></div><d=
iv>3. Even: yes, I&#39;m not quite sure whether this should be handled on G=
DAL or TIFF level. Other GDAL-readable format like netcdf-cf have time stan=
dards already, but yes, geotiffs (and lately COGs =3D <a href=3D"https://ww=
w.cogeo.org/">cloud-optimized geotiffs</a>) are the lingua franca of our co=
mmunity.=C2=A0 Setting GDAL fields START_DATE and END_DATE indeed feels lik=
e a good solution, so I wanted to find out how to do this properly in the h=
ope of creating a standard.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 12:46 PM Bob Fries=
enhahn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bfriesen@simple.dallas.tx.us">bfriesen@simple.=
dallas.tx.us</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex">On Thu, 12 May 2022, Simon (Vsevolod) Ilyushchenko wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Can you assume DateTime is UTC with your particular files and use =
cases?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Yes, this is a good fallback option.<br>
<br>
I am not sure about established precedence, but this is much better <br>
than being a mere fallback option as long as the recipient knows it is <br>
UTC.=C2=A0 This could be handled via documentation.<br>
<br>
Dealing with time zones is hard, and it assumes that both the writer <br>
and the reader have knowledge of the current time zone, and access to <br>
the time zone database necessary to do conversions.<br>
<br>
It may still be necessary for the writer and reader do to something <br>
special to produce and consume UTC timestamps.<br>
<br>
Unix type systems (and those using NTP) have a system clock which is <br>
on UTC time.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
-- <br>
Bob Friesenhahn<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bfriesen@simple.dallas.tx.us" target=3D"_blank">bfriesen@=
simple.dallas.tx.us</a>, <a href=3D"http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfri=
esen/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.simplesystems.org/us=
ers/bfriesen/</a><br>
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://www.GraphicsMagic=
k.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/=
</a><br>
Public Key,=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.simplesystems.org/user=
s/bfriesen/public-key.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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