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Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:44:50 +0800
Message-ID: <CACXnXqx6J73M83jWh+LMvHhHKcd1HhXVV5UHVG5sbJyYF49aQg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: TIFF Durations Hylafax/Dialogic
From: Kasra Salehi <kasra.salehi@utbox.net>
To: Lee Howard <faxguy@howardsilvan.com>
Cc: Kasra Salehi <kasra.salehi@utbox.net>, Tim Khoury
	<tim.khoury@utbox.net>
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Hi Lee,

Thanks a lot for this info. It's actually helped us quite a lot and give us
a lot more info regarding how Hylafax/Dialogic handles the TIFF files.

Have a great week :)

Regards,
Kasra



On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Lee Howard <faxguy@howardsilvan.com>
wrote:

> Hello Kasra,
>
> If I understand correctly, you're saying that if you have an image that in
> G3 MH (1D) that is twice as big as an image in G4 MMR (2D) that the
> transmission time is essentially the same for both (when HylaFAX is not
> employing RTFCC, real-time format compression conversion)?
>
> I would suspect that RTFCC is being performed either by HylaFAX or by the
> Dialogic device.
>
> With all of the bells-and-whistles built-into HylaFAX (including JBIG),
> HylaFAX.org versions will perform RTFCC by "blindly" reformatting -
> preferring JBIG over MMR over MR over MH.  If JBIG isn't built-in then it's
> just MMR over MR over MH.  However, a device such as a Dialogic modem
> certainly has the capability to undo or redo that effort to whatever it
> chooses.
>
> 2D compression is not always better than 1D, however.  See slides 17 and
> 18 in: http://hylafax.sourceforge.net/docs/cluecon2-presentation.odp
>
> In modern HylaFAX+ versions it employs "intelligent" RTFCC.  That means
> that it will convert an MH image to MMR and then compare the two of them.
> If the 2D compression is smaller than the 1D then it will prefer MMR and MR
> over MH.  If it 1D is smaller then it will prefer MH even over MMR.  JBIG
> compression is always preferred with "intelligent" RTFCC because there is
> no realistic scenario where it is not tighter.
>
> The URL you cite is incorrect.  JBIG is supported by Class 2.1.  I don't
> know why the hylafax.org wiki says otherwise.  It may be that the
> hylafax.org versions do not support it (I thought they did, though), but
> the Class 2.1 spec does support JBIG, and HylaFAX+ does, too.
>
> So, yes, JBIG is always going to be the best choice if you can use it.
> However, you can't always use it.  MMR is typically better than MH, but not
> by a whole lot, and if you're sending dithered images then MMR may not
> really be any better than MH (in-fact it could be worse).  However, for all
> the work you do it could theoretically be undone by the Dialogic device, so
> you'd want to check on the hardware configuration.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lee.
>
>
> On 03/16/2015 02:28 AM, Kasra Salehi wrote:
>
>> Hi Lee,
>>
>> I trust all is well.
>>
>> Hope you don't mind me dropping you a quick email but Rhett and the rest
>> of us have been trying to crack down on conversion methods to speed up our
>> fax transmission times. Are you able to provide me with any specific
>> recommendations for achieving faster durations?
>>
>> I've personally been testing between Group 3 and Group 4, 2D MMR, 1-D but
>> we can't seem to translate anything into real reductions in duration (even
>> if the TIFF is half the size of our original dithering methods).
>>
>> I've been skimming the net, particularly the Hylafax forums and I can see
>> there are a few people suggesting JBIG compression with v34.
>>
>> http://www.hylafax.org/content/Handbook:Advanced_
>> Server_Configuration:JPEG_and_JBIG_Faxing#JBIG
>>
>> Is this worth trying or do you have anything specific you think might
>> help us out? I'm happy to play around with the dithering of the document,
>> removing unique black pixels, less stippling, etc but I'd be keen to know
>> if there is a particular type of TIFF compression that is best suited for
>> faster durations.
>>
>> I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kasra
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Kasra Salehi*
>> Account Manager
>> UTBox Pty Ltd
>> *direct:* +61 2 8090 3368
>> *mobile:* +61 433 672 382
>> *fax:* +61 2 9012 0222
>> *skype:* kasra.salehi
>>
>>
>

--089e0160c9443dcc550511772425
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Lee,<div><br></div><div>Thanks a lot for this info. It&=
#39;s actually helped us quite a lot and give us a lot more info regarding =
how Hylafax/Dialogic handles the TIFF files.</div><div><br></div><div>Have =
a great week :)</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Kasra</div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Lee Howard <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:faxguy@howardsilvan.com" target=3D"_blank">faxguy@howard=
silvan.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello Ka=
sra,<br>
<br>
If I understand correctly, you&#39;re saying that if you have an image that=
 in G3 MH (1D) that is twice as big as an image in G4 MMR (2D) that the tra=
nsmission time is essentially the same for both (when HylaFAX is not employ=
ing RTFCC, real-time format compression conversion)?<br>
<br>
I would suspect that RTFCC is being performed either by HylaFAX or by the D=
ialogic device.<br>
<br>
With all of the bells-and-whistles built-into HylaFAX (including JBIG), Hyl=
aFAX.org versions will perform RTFCC by &quot;blindly&quot; reformatting - =
preferring JBIG over MMR over MR over MH.=C2=A0 If JBIG isn&#39;t built-in =
then it&#39;s just MMR over MR over MH.=C2=A0 However, a device such as a D=
ialogic modem certainly has the capability to undo or redo that effort to w=
hatever it chooses.<br>
<br>
2D compression is not always better than 1D, however.=C2=A0 See slides 17 a=
nd 18 in: <a href=3D"http://hylafax.sourceforge.net/docs/cluecon2-presentat=
ion.odp" target=3D"_blank">http://hylafax.sourceforge.<u></u>net/docs/cluec=
on2-<u></u>presentation.odp</a><br>
<br>
In modern HylaFAX+ versions it employs &quot;intelligent&quot; RTFCC.=C2=A0=
 That means that it will convert an MH image to MMR and then compare the tw=
o of them.=C2=A0 If the 2D compression is smaller than the 1D then it will =
prefer MMR and MR over MH.=C2=A0 If it 1D is smaller then it will prefer MH=
 even over MMR.=C2=A0 JBIG compression is always preferred with &quot;intel=
ligent&quot; RTFCC because there is no realistic scenario where it is not t=
ighter.<br>
<br>
The URL you cite is incorrect.=C2=A0 JBIG is supported by Class 2.1.=C2=A0 =
I don&#39;t know why the <a href=3D"http://hylafax.org" target=3D"_blank">h=
ylafax.org</a> wiki says otherwise.=C2=A0 It may be that the <a href=3D"htt=
p://hylafax.org" target=3D"_blank">hylafax.org</a> versions do not support =
it (I thought they did, though), but the Class 2.1 spec does support JBIG, =
and HylaFAX+ does, too.<br>
<br>
So, yes, JBIG is always going to be the best choice if you can use it.=C2=
=A0 However, you can&#39;t always use it.=C2=A0 MMR is typically better tha=
n MH, but not by a whole lot, and if you&#39;re sending dithered images the=
n MMR may not really be any better than MH (in-fact it could be worse).=C2=
=A0 However, for all the work you do it could theoretically be undone by th=
e Dialogic device, so you&#39;d want to check on the hardware configuration=
.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Lee.<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
<br>
On 03/16/2015 02:28 AM, Kasra Salehi wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
Hi Lee,<br>
<br>
I trust all is well.<br>
<br>
Hope you don&#39;t mind me dropping you a quick email but Rhett and the res=
t of us have been trying to crack down on conversion methods to speed up ou=
r fax transmission times. Are you able to provide me with any specific reco=
mmendations for achieving faster durations?<br>
<br>
I&#39;ve personally been testing between Group 3 and Group 4, 2D MMR, 1-D b=
ut we can&#39;t seem to translate anything into real reductions in duration=
 (even if the TIFF is half the size of our original dithering methods).<br>
<br>
I&#39;ve been skimming the net, particularly the Hylafax forums and I can s=
ee there are a few people suggesting JBIG compression with v34.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.hylafax.org/content/Handbook:Advanced_Server_Configur=
ation:JPEG_and_JBIG_Faxing#JBIG" target=3D"_blank">http://www.hylafax.org/<=
u></u>content/Handbook:Advanced_<u></u>Server_Configuration:JPEG_and_<u></u=
>JBIG_Faxing#JBIG</a><br>
<br>
Is this worth trying or do you have anything specific you think might help =
us out? I&#39;m happy to play around with the dithering of the document, re=
moving unique black pixels, less stippling, etc but I&#39;d be keen to know=
 if there is a particular type of TIFF compression that is best suited for =
faster durations.<br>
<br>
I look forward to hearing your thoughts.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Kasra<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br></span>
*Kasra Salehi*<span class=3D""><br>
Account Manager<br>
UTBox Pty Ltd<br></span>
*direct:* <a href=3D"tel:%2B61%202%208090%203368" value=3D"+61280903368" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">+61 2 8090 3368</a><br>
*mobile:* <a href=3D"tel:%2B61%20433%20672%20382" value=3D"+61433672382" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">+61 433 672 382</a><br>
*fax:* <a href=3D"tel:%2B61%202%209012%200222" value=3D"+61290120222" targe=
t=3D"_blank">+61 2 9012 0222</a><br>
*skype:* kasra.salehi<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><di=
v><div><br></div></div></div></div></div>
</div><img width=3D"0" height=3D"0" class=3D"mailtrack-img" src=3D"https://=
mailtrack.io/trace/mail/41af29b923d774c81438a5e21769bd9ce6191118.png"></div=
>

--089e0160c9443dcc550511772425--


